Kobe Bean Bryant

I just wanna see everyone's opinion since this is a Celtic's site. Do y'all think Kobe is a ballhog, selfish, arrogant player or one of the best in the league.

I don't think he's a huge ballhog. He is the best individual in the league. His only problem is that he doesn't make the players around look that good. He's not a team player, he's a franchise player.

I don't look at him as a ballhog or selfish (now). Earlier in his career I did find his style of play to be a bit selfish, but now I just look at him as the best player in the league.

degdeg wrote:I don't think he's a huge ballhog. He is the best individual in the league. His only problem is that he doesn't make the players around look that good. He's not a team player, he's a franchise player.

Hard to make the players around you look good IF THEY SUCK.

Heir wrote:

degdeg wrote:I don't think he's a huge ballhog. He is the best individual in the league. His only problem is that he doesn't make the players around look that good. He's not a team player, he's a franchise player.

Hard to make the players around you look good IF THEY SUCK.

some of the players around steve nash sucked until he made them better players.

Celtic Fan wrote:

Heir wrote:

degdeg wrote:I don't think he's a huge ballhog. He is the best individual in the league. His only problem is that he doesn't make the players around look that good. He's not a team player, he's a franchise player.

Hard to make the players around you look good IF THEY SUCK.

some of the players around steve nash sucked until he made them better players.

Yeah, Nash must feel like he's in hell trying to make Marion and Stoudemire better.

Heir wrote:

Celtic Fan wrote:

Heir wrote:

degdeg wrote:I don't think he's a huge ballhog. He is the best individual in the league. His only problem is that he doesn't make the players around look that good. He's not a team player, he's a franchise player.

Hard to make the players around you look good IF THEY SUCK.

some of the players around steve nash sucked until he made them better players.

Yeah, Nash must feel like he's in hell trying to make Marion and Stoudemire better.

honestly, marion and stoudamire are garbage

Heir wrote:

Celtic Fan wrote:

Heir wrote:

degdeg wrote:I don't think he's a huge ballhog. He is the best individual in the league. His only problem is that he doesn't make the players around look that good. He's not a team player, he's a franchise player.

Hard to make the players around you look good IF THEY SUCK.

some of the players around steve nash sucked until he made them better players.

Yeah, Nash must feel like he's in hell trying to make Marion and Stoudemire better.

yes, simple man, that's exactly who I was talking about.
No way I was talking about Raja Bell, Boris Diaw, Quetin Richardson, Tim Thomas, Eddie House.
and there's not a chance Marion's shooting % has gone from 48% or less before nash to %48,%52.5,%52.4 over the last 3 yrs (Stoudemire's too btw)

and the Suns didn't go from 36,44,29 wins the 3 prior years to 62,54 (without Amare for the entire season), 61 wins with Nash running the team.

I must be absolutely wrong that Nash has made his teamates better. Just completely off my rocker.. that or I know what I'm talking about.

Kobe great scorer, horrible teamate.

Celtic Fan wrote:

Heir wrote:

Celtic Fan wrote:

Heir wrote:

degdeg wrote:I don't think he's a huge ballhog. He is the best individual in the league. His only problem is that he doesn't make the players around look that good. He's not a team player, he's a franchise player.

Hard to make the players around you look good IF THEY SUCK.

some of the players around steve nash sucked until he made them better players.

Yeah, Nash must feel like he's in hell trying to make Marion and Stoudemire better.

yes, simple man, that's exactly who I was talking about.
No way I was talking about Raja Bell, Boris Diaw, Quetin Richardson, Tim Thomas, Eddie House.
and there's not a chance Marion's shooting % has gone from 48% or less before nash to %48,%52.5,%52.4 over the last 3 yrs (Stoudemire's too btw)

and the Suns didn't go from 36,44,29 wins the 3 prior years to 62,54 (without Amare for the entire season), 61 wins with Nash running the team.

I must be absolutely wrong that Nash has made his teamates better. Just completely off my rocker.. that or I know what I'm talking about.

Kobe great scorer, horrible teamate.

Marion had been an All-Star before Nash had even came and Stoudemire was rookie of the year. You don't think maturity could have anything to do with their development? Besides, Nash and Kobe are too different players. Nash's job is to set players up, isn't he the point guard? Kobe is a 2, it's not his job to set people up. And even aside from that, Kobe can't do anything if Bynum can't hit a 5 foot hook, or force Lamar to shoot more. Nor can he do anything to make our bench more consistent, or our perimeter defense stronger.

Heir wrote:

Celtic Fan wrote:

Heir wrote:

Celtic Fan wrote:

Heir wrote:

degdeg wrote:I don't think he's a huge ballhog. He is the best individual in the league. His only problem is that he doesn't make the players around look that good. He's not a team player, he's a franchise player.

Hard to make the players around you look good IF THEY SUCK.

some of the players around steve nash sucked until he made them better players.

Yeah, Nash must feel like he's in hell trying to make Marion and Stoudemire better.

yes, simple man, that's exactly who I was talking about.
No way I was talking about Raja Bell, Boris Diaw, Quetin Richardson, Tim Thomas, Eddie House.
and there's not a chance Marion's shooting % has gone from 48% or less before nash to %48,%52.5,%52.4 over the last 3 yrs (Stoudemire's too btw)

and the Suns didn't go from 36,44,29 wins the 3 prior years to 62,54 (without Amare for the entire season), 61 wins with Nash running the team.

I must be absolutely wrong that Nash has made his teamates better. Just completely off my rocker.. that or I know what I'm talking about.

Kobe great scorer, horrible teamate.

Marion had been an All-Star before Nash had even came and Stoudemire was rookie of the year. You don't think maturity could have anything to do with their development? Besides, Nash and Kobe are too different players. Nash's job is to set players up, isn't he the point guard? Kobe is a 2, it's not his job to set people up. And even aside from that, Kobe can't do anything if Bynum can't hit a 5 foot hook, or force Lamar to shoot more. Nor can he do anything to make our bench more consistent, or our perimeter defense stronger.

I can somewhat agree with that statement. Nash isnt in a position where he needs to drop 30pts a game, because he has the playmaking ability to turn any average scorer into a great scorer on any given night. But the thing with Nash is, he himself is also a very capable scorer.

Kobe, no question, best player in the NBA IMO, I don't think he's the greatest team guy, but you cant argue with his talent.

If I had to choose one to have on my team, I'd probably lean towards Nash simply for the fact that he is the true definition of a natural PG IMO. He can make garbage players like Marcus Banks look great at times simply with his playmaking. You really can't go wrong with either one though.

[quote="Heir]Marion had been an All-Star before Nash had even came and Stoudemire was rookie of the year. You don't think maturity could have anything to do with their development? Besides, Nash and Kobe are too different players. Nash's job is to set players up, isn't he the point guard? Kobe is a 2, it's not his job to set people up. And even aside from that, Kobe can't do anything if Bynum can't hit a 5 foot hook, or force Lamar to shoot more. Nor can he do anything to make our bench more consistent, or our perimeter defense stronger.[/quote]

Skip Nash then, any GREAT player makes his teamates better, they find ways to make the game for those around them easier. Tim Duncan, Larry Bird, Jordan, Russell, Jabbar none are PG's but all of them did what it took to win. Yes they played with talented players, but some of those guys were talented because these guys made them excel.

Kobe hasn't made a single player around him any better than they would be on another team. He just doesn't get it. He tried to follow Jordan's blueprint, but he didn't understand the blueprint IMO.
He's a talented scorer, but he's like a cloned version of MJ but without the Joy.

It's like watching a really talented jerk play, you don't get goosebumps when you see him play, you just think, that guy is a self-serving jerk

Celtic Fan wrote:[

Since you know so much about making the players around you better, tell me what exactly that means and how you do it.

Best player in the game right now

flipmeister wrote:Best player in the game right now

but if Kobe is without a doubt the best player in the game.. how come he's never won an MVP? sure if he won 3-4 ppl would tire of it like they did with Jordan and vote for someone else. But he's never won it once.
he's one of the best players.. but I can't call him the best.

Celtic Fan wrote:

flipmeister wrote:Best player in the game right now

but if Kobe is without a doubt the best player in the game.. how come he's never won an MVP? sure if he won 3-4 ppl would tire of it like they did with Jordan and vote for someone else. But he's never won it once.
he's one of the best players.. but I can't call him the best.

I'm not telling that he's better than MJ,but especially the last 2 years he's unstoppable.

Also MVP title is given by the press and everybody knows that their not really a fan of Kobe.The last few years the MVP title is ''just'' given to the best player on a contender.Do you really think that Nash was the best player in the league for 2 years.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

flipmeister wrote:

Celtic Fan wrote:

flipmeister wrote:Best player in the game right now

but if Kobe is without a doubt the best player in the game.. how come he's never won an MVP? sure if he won 3-4 ppl would tire of it like they did with Jordan and vote for someone else. But he's never won it once.
he's one of the best players.. but I can't call him the best.

I'm not telling that he's better than MJ,but especially the last 2 years he's unstoppable.

Also MVP title is given by the press and everybody knows that their not really a fan of Kobe.The last few years the MVP title is ''just'' given to the best player on a contender.Do you really think that Nash was the best player in the league for 2 years.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I wasn't talking about G.O.A.T. I was talking about now.
Kobe has been in the league 11 years, not just the last 3. He has Zero MVP's
As for the media, they're sometimes wrong, but are also paid to follow this sport for a living. And to be a voter for the MVP, you have to have some yrs under your belt. Are we going to discredit every single player to win the MVP award? Because if you start with Nash, you might as well start stripping others of the award. Starting with Magic and his last MVP award over Jordan.
Nash turned a non-playoff contending Suns team with essentially the same players that Stephon Marbury had and took them from 36,44,29 win team to 62,54,61 win team.
The first year he won it, the Suns improved by 33 games and most of it was due to Nash. The 2nd year they lost 3 of their 5 starters, and still won 54 games.
Yes, yes, I've heard the "amare and marion were good before Nash" arguement. But have you looked at their shooting %'s? They went up a fair amount after Nash arrived. He made them more effective than they already were.
The big thing super-stars do is make the mediocre player much better than they ever were. In this case he's made Q-Rich, Boris Diaw, Raja Bell, Tim freakingThomas!!! all better players then they ever were or have been. He also helped Joe Johnson realise his potential too. So yeah he deserved that first MVP. Shaq can bitch all he wants, he just wanted the hardware himself.

The 2nd year.. if Amare and at least Q-Rich or JJ are on that starting roster, he probably doesn't get it. You lose all 3 and still win 54 games... well that shows how important Nash really is to the team. Really shut up Slam magazine and a few other who were trying to say Nash wasn't even the best player on the Suns let alone MVP the previous yr..

Kobe is a prolific scorer the likes of which we have seldomly seen. He did great with another great player on his team to do the things that are necessary to make your team a winner while he was able to do what he does best. Score, Score and score some more. The leadership and chemistry responsibilities fell upon Shaq.
Now kobe has a lesser team, no doubt but they should be better than they currently are because if Kobe is the best in the league, he should be able to make his teamates better so the team accomplishes more. He doesn't do that and is there the best scorer in the league, not the best player.

Kobe needs another allstar, its as simple as that IMO, and Lamar Odom is not an allstar IMO. Pair Kobe with Jermaine O'neal or Jason Kidd, and the Lakers are instant contenders simply because Kobe can dominate any team at will, but the Lakers front office has done a horrible job.

Celtic Fan wrote:

flipmeister wrote:Best player in the game right now

but if Kobe is without a doubt the best player in the game.. how come he's never won an MVP? sure if he won 3-4 ppl would tire of it like they did with Jordan and vote for someone else. But he's never won it once.
he's one of the best players.. but I can't call him the best.

Because you won't win MVP if your team only wins 45 and 42 games. Clearly he deserved it at least in 2003 and 2006, but he just didn't get it. Don't forget that he had to play second fiddle to Shaq for most of his career.

Heir wrote:

Celtic Fan wrote:

flipmeister wrote:Best player in the game right now

but if Kobe is without a doubt the best player in the game.. how come he's never won an MVP? sure if he won 3-4 ppl would tire of it like they did with Jordan and vote for someone else. But he's never won it once.
he's one of the best players.. but I can't call him the best.

Because you won't win MVP if your team only wins 45 and 42 games. Clearly he deserved it at least in 2003 and 2006, but he just didn't get it. Don't forget that he had to play second fiddle to Shaq for most of his career.

yeah he played with Shaq, but Larry Bird played with McHale and Parrish.
Magic Played with Kareem and Worthy
Moses Malone won one of his MVP's playing with Dr. J.
So it can happen. Shaq won his MVP playing with Kobe..

Celtic Fan wrote:

Heir wrote:

Celtic Fan wrote:

flipmeister wrote:Best player in the game right now

but if Kobe is without a doubt the best player in the game.. how come he's never won an MVP? sure if he won 3-4 ppl would tire of it like they did with Jordan and vote for someone else. But he's never won it once.
he's one of the best players.. but I can't call him the best.

Because you won't win MVP if your team only wins 45 and 42 games. Clearly he deserved it at least in 2003 and 2006, but he just didn't get it. Don't forget that he had to play second fiddle to Shaq for most of his career.

yeah he played with Shaq, but Larry Bird played with McHale and Parrish.
Magic Played with Kareem and Worthy
Moses Malone won one of his MVP's playing with Dr. J.
So it can happen. Shaq won his MVP playing with Kobe..

Magic won his MVP's alongside Kareem when he got old. Besides, Magic's game was to set people up. Kobe's game is to score. You can't do that when you have Shaquille O'Neal down low.