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KyleCleric
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 Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 9:14 am Post subject: |
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| flipmeister wrote: |
| KC, I'm sorry but what you're saying is crap. Nothing personely offcourse. But you don't think scoring 81 points is great? A sign of greatness? Outscoring the Mavericks in three quarters by one by himself? And don't come with crappy defense. The shots he took that night... Still, you are right that he tries to force things when they don't go his way. But putting 5 players in front of him? C'mon. |
That's not greatness. That's spectacular ability. Greatness happens in the playoffs when a player or team does everything they can to win. Even if they don't win, it is respectable (Jerry West). Kobe though has never shown the ability to lead a team or even dominate a major series in the playoffs. Putting up 81 in a regular season game is meaningless as in the general scheme of things, the regular season is meaningless.
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MikeDead
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 9:32 am Post subject: |
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If you replace Kobe with Pierce on the post Shaq Laker's squads, without Pau Gasol does Pierce lead those teams to the playoffs? In all likelihood no. Kobe at the least was able to take mediocre teams to the playoffs, in a very tough conference.
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KyleCleric
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 9:40 am Post subject: |
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| MikeDead wrote: |
| If you replace Kobe with Pierce on the post Shaq Laker's squads, without Pau Gasol does Pierce lead those teams to the playoffs? In all likelihood no. Kobe at the least was able to take mediocre teams to the playoffs, in a very tough conference. |
34 wins, no playoffs
45 wins, lost in first round
42 wins, lost in first round
That is not impressive for a guy being touted as the greatest player in the game. 34 wins with Caron Butler and Lamar Odom on your team to go with Kobe?
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MikeDead
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 9:45 am Post subject: |
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| KyleCleric wrote: |
| MikeDead wrote: |
| If you replace Kobe with Pierce on the post Shaq Laker's squads, without Pau Gasol does Pierce lead those teams to the playoffs? In all likelihood no. Kobe at the least was able to take mediocre teams to the playoffs, in a very tough conference. |
34 wins, no playoffs
45 wins, lost in first round
42 wins, lost in first round
That is not impressive for a guy being touted as the greatest player in the game. 34 wins with Caron Butler and Lamar Odom on your team to go with Kobe? |
Well Caron at that point had yet to develop his game to the point of being anywhere near where it is right now. The point is, if you replace Pierce on that team with Kobe, are the Laker's better or worse? I'd say worse and it's not even close. Pierce needed a team of Payton, Antoine, Raef (When he was still useful) & Ricky Davis before he was able to get the Celtic's to the 1st round. Only to lose to an inferior Pacers squad.
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KyleCleric
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 9:56 am Post subject: |
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| MikeDead wrote: |
| KyleCleric wrote: |
| MikeDead wrote: |
| If you replace Kobe with Pierce on the post Shaq Laker's squads, without Pau Gasol does Pierce lead those teams to the playoffs? In all likelihood no. Kobe at the least was able to take mediocre teams to the playoffs, in a very tough conference. |
34 wins, no playoffs
45 wins, lost in first round
42 wins, lost in first round
That is not impressive for a guy being touted as the greatest player in the game. 34 wins with Caron Butler and Lamar Odom on your team to go with Kobe? |
Well Caron at that point had yet to develop his game to the point of being anywhere near where it is right now. The point is, if you replace Pierce on that team with Kobe, are the Laker's better or worse? I'd say worse and it's not even close. Pierce needed a team of Payton, Antoine, Raef (When he was still useful) & Ricky Davis before he was able to get the Celtic's to the 1st round. Only to lose to an inferior Pacers squad. |
Are you saying that a Pierce led Lakers with Caron Butler, Lamar Odom, and the rest of those players would have less than 34 wins?
That Celtic team sucked. Payton and Raef were pretty much useless in their old and injured states. Ricky Davis imploded after Walker came to the team. He has never been exactly considered a good player. Walker played about 10 good games and then reverted back to dominating the ball and screwing with team chemistry. That team going into the playoffs was a mess. The biggest mistake in Ainge's career was succumbing to Boston media and fan pressure and wasting resources to bring back that loser from Atlanta. This was just 3 seasons earlier than last season and look how all those players performed last year. Payton wasn't in the league. Raef was buried in Portland's bench. Walker was buried in the Wolves bench. Ricky was miserable on one of the worst teams in NBA history.
Regardless, I wasn't comparing Pierce with Kobe. In a comparison, talentwise, Kobe is probably better than Pierce. In terms of playing basketball, they are very close. In terms of being great, I wouldn't exactly put either of them in the same category as Bill Russell, Jerry West, John Havlicek, Magic Johnson, and Larry Bird. Kevin Garnett, Tim Duncan, and Shaq, though, are players that I would put with them.
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arkanekidd
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:04 am Post subject: |
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that argument is pathetic reallly. caron butler wasn't used much on the lakers, and he wasn't that great at the time either. for the most part he was just a sixth man backing up kobe, the rest of teh pieces on the team wre absolutely pathetic. replace kobe with pierce? no way he pierce hits that shot against portland with barely any time left on the shotclock...
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arkanekidd
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:05 am Post subject: |
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^ not to mention they had a terrible coach in the 34 win season they traded caron for kwame and got better 
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KyleCleric
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:07 am Post subject: |
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| arkanekidd wrote: |
| that argument is pathetic reallly. caron butler wasn't used much on the lakers, and he wasn't that great at the time either. for the most part he was just a sixth man backing up kobe, the rest of teh pieces on the team wre absolutely pathetic. replace kobe with pierce? no way he pierce hits that shot against portland with barely any time left on the shotclock... |
Caron Butler started every single game he played for the Lakers and was second on the team in scoring that season.
As for the shot against portland, Pierce is one of the most clutch shooters/scorers in the NBA. He is as likely to make it as Kobe.
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arkanekidd
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:11 am Post subject: |
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^ that's just about all he did. their strategy was to just go to kobe 24/7. rudy was a terrible coach. either way, kobe became the best next season, and truly the best the season after that, when he actually started to think about his teammates.
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KyleCleric
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:16 am Post subject: |
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| arkanekidd wrote: |
| ^ that's just about all he did. their strategy was to just go to kobe 24/7. rudy was a terrible coach. either way, kobe became the best next season, and truly the best the season after that, when he actually started to think about his teammates. |
Kobe Bryant doesn't care about his teammates and never will. He isn't wired to do so. Kobe is the league's ultimate egotist and as a result, will NEVER lead his team to a championship.
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arkanekidd
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:19 am Post subject: |
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^ that's part true, all kobe cares for is winning, which is ultimately all the fans care about too. the title's comin next year 
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KyleCleric
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| arkanekidd wrote: |
| ^ that's part true, all kobe cares for is winning, which is ultimately all the fans care about too. the title's comin next year |
Kobe cares about Kobe. If he cared about winning then he would have had a chance of winning. He didn't care and they had no chance. His performance and that of the Lakers is one of the worst in NBA history.
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arkanekidd
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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| KyleCleric wrote: |
| arkanekidd wrote: |
| ^ that's part true, all kobe cares for is winning, which is ultimately all the fans care about too. the title's comin next year |
Kobe cares about Kobe. If he cared about winning then he would have had a chance of winning. He didn't care and they had no chance. His performance and that of the Lakers is one of the worst in NBA history. |
you keep talking crap and display no evidence to your claims....worst in nba history? the team that performed against the spurs the year before was worse. for kobe, winning is EVERYTHING.
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goldnblue83
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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Stealthindian
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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| ^^ that was not epic fail he made that shot. |
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apples
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Stealthindian wrote: |
| ^^ that was not epic fail he made that shot. |
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Wizards08=Championship
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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| apples wrote: |
| Stealthindian wrote: |
| ^^ that was not epic fail he made that shot. |
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You got proof?
Kobe was getting  by Pierce lol
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LaLa
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| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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| What did Kobe do to get this unwarranted hate? |
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MikeDead
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| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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| LaLa wrote: |
| What did Kobe do to get this unwarranted hate? |
Eh, the same thing that Pierce, Garnett and Allen did to get unwarranted hate on every Laker's board. It's just kinda the way things go.
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KyleCleric
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| Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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| LaLa wrote: |
| What did Kobe do to get this unwarranted hate? |
it has to do w/ a lot of different factors. One of the most important is that he is on the Lakers. Of course there are other reasons that have as much weight or perhaps even more.
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