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MikeDead
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 Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:13 am Post subject: If The KG Deal Never Happened |
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Okay, I'm not trying to take anything away from Kevin Garnett, and it's really tough to complain about anything this season, but here's just a thought that I have had for a few weeks, so I decided to let the season play out a bit, and then look at the stats, and needless to say, I don't think the Celtic's would have been too much worse then they are now if the Kevin Garnett deal had never happened.
Kevin Garnett (This Season)
35.0mpg, 19.3ppg, 9.9rpg, 3.6apg, 1.53bpg, 1.47spg
Al Jefferson (This Season)
36.4mpg, 20.2ppg, 11.8rpg, 1.3apg, 1.32bpg, 1.05spg
Okay so Jefferson is playing 1.4mpg more then Garnett which may explain why his scoring is a bit more then Garnett, but Jefferson is also grabbing in 2 more rebounds a game, and averaging 4 offensive rebounds a game, and Jefferson and Garnett's defensive numbers are eerily similar considering what we packaged to get Garnett.
So, if the Garnett trade never happened and we had kept the team as is after the Ray Allen deal, Jefferson's production would not have been far off from where Garnett is playing right now, infact Jefferson has a higher EFF Rating then Garnett.
So Gerald Green, Sebastian Telfair, Ryan Gomes, and that massive expiring contract of Theo Ratliff which would have just continued to gain value as the season progressed still would have remained under the Celtic's control. Sebastian Telfair for some reason has completely broken out this season and is averaging nearly 6apg with nearly no offensive weapons around him. Theo Ratliff is averaging nearly 3bpg, and Ryan Gomes and Gerald Green are combining for over 16ppg.
The way that the Celtic's big three have their contracts structured is that we will have three big expirings starting in 2010 until KG expires in 2012, so along with trading a much younger 20/11 guy in return for a much older 20/10 guy, we also gave away a massive expiring contract which would have brought the Celtic's under the cap, and by then if Jefferson's development continued the way it has, Boston would have been a much more desired destination for free agents, and right now it's looking like Sebastian Telfair would have been more then a suitable backup PG, and you can even make the argument that Telfair is having a better season then Rondo without having nearly as many weapons as Rajon has here in Boston.
So looking back now on how things have panned out, does anybody else think that this may have been more of a desperation move on the part of Danny Ainge where he figured, "Okay, I'll risk everything to win now"? Because looking back on the deal, it doesn't look like Boston would have been any worse off by not making the KG deal, and with Theo's expiring would have had a major piece to package with a Gomes/Green, to make a deal for an impact player, at a much cheaper cost then what KG cost us.
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Celtic Fan
Joined: 27 Feb 2007
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Location: Ottawa Canada
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:41 am Post subject: |
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that's not even a comparison.
Big Al is putting up numbers on a shitty team with no other real options.
KG's numbers are down because he's playing with two other top 30 players in the league.
If you think for a second having Al rather than KG would = 30-6, you're plain nuts.
KG has way more experience and brings tons of intangibles to the table too. He's changed the attitude of the players and the atmosphere of the clubhouse.
the numbers are misleading
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MikeDead
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:29 am Post subject: |
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| Celtic Fan wrote: |
that's not even a comparison.
Big Al is putting up numbers on a [Swearing is not permitted, please edit your post] team with no other real options.
KG's numbers are down because he's playing with two other top 30 players in the league.
If you think for a second having Al rather than KG would = 30-6, you're plain nuts.
KG has way more experience and brings tons of intangibles to the table too. He's changed the attitude of the players and the atmosphere of the clubhouse.
the numbers are misleading |
Great reply, and I totally agree. I found this post on another forum and was interested in seeing other fans replies.
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KyleCleric
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:01 am Post subject: |
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It's not about the numbers but the effect that he has on his teammates. Great players make others around him better. KG is a great player and I hope someday that Big Al also becomes a great player.
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MikeDead
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:43 am Post subject: |
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| KyleCleric wrote: |
| It's not about the numbers but the effect that he has on his teammates. Great players make others around him better. KG is a great player and I hope someday that Big Al also becomes a great player. |
Yea I think Big Al is well on his way to becoming an allstar player.
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LAkerfan
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Celtic Fan wrote: |
that's not even a comparison.
Big Al is putting up numbers on a [Swearing is not permitted, please edit your post] team with no other real options.
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flipmeister
Joined: 15 Sep 2007
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Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 9:59 am Post subject: |
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| If The KG Deal Never Happened,The Lakers where the number one team to bring him in and would probably own the NBA. |
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KyleCleric
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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| flipmeister wrote: |
| If The KG Deal Never Happened,The Lakers where the number one team to bring him in and would probably own the NBA. |
Unlikely. The Lakers did not and do not have the players that the Wolves would have wanted.
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flipmeister
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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| KyleCleric wrote: |
| flipmeister wrote: |
| If The KG Deal Never Happened,The Lakers where the number one team to bring him in and would probably own the NBA. |
Unlikely. The Lakers did not and do not have the players that the Wolves would have wanted. |
perhaps you're right but, at draft night there was a deal that probably would bring KG to LA.The Lakers,Bobcats and Nets where working on a deal that would send Gerald Wallace+their 8th pick (wich turned out to be Brandan Wright) to LA,Odom to NJ and Jefferson to Charlotte.That would bring in the extra x factor like an Allen type of player that would strong up the lineup.The Lakers would package Bynum+Farmar+Brown+Criitenton+8th pick+ '09 and '10 first round pick for KG.
It would give the Lakers a pretty strong lineup
Mihm/Turiaf
Garnett
Wallace
Bryant
Fisher
But when the Warriors got greedy and wanted more for Richardson, Jordan nixed the three-way deal and KG was gone.The rest is history... |
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KyleCleric
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| Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 9:21 am Post subject: |
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| flipmeister wrote: |
| KyleCleric wrote: |
| flipmeister wrote: |
| If The KG Deal Never Happened,The Lakers where the number one team to bring him in and would probably own the NBA. |
Unlikely. The Lakers did not and do not have the players that the Wolves would have wanted. |
perhaps you're right but, at draft night there was a deal that probably would bring KG to LA.The Lakers,Bobcats and Nets where working on a deal that would send Gerald Wallace+their 8th pick (wich turned out to be Brandan Wright) to LA,Odom to NJ and Jefferson to Charlotte.That would bring in the extra x factor like an Allen type of player that would strong up the lineup.The Lakers would package Bynum+Farmar+Brown+Criitenton+8th pick+ '09 and '10 first round pick for KG.
It would give the Lakers a pretty strong lineup
Mihm/Turiaf
Garnett
Wallace
Bryant
Fisher
But when the Warriors got greedy and wanted more for Richardson, Jordan nixed the three-way deal and KG was gone.The rest is history... |
I didn't hear about that one, but, IMO, it doesn't make sense for any team involved except LA. NJ doesn't downgrade from Jefferson to Odom. Charlotte doesn't downgrade from Wallace and the 8th pick for Jefferson.
As for the deal between LA and the Wolves, it isn't close to matching in salary and doesn't offer the same quality of player they eventually got.
The one deal that I saw for Garnett that seemed to have any potential to it was the Warriors deal and negotiation where Monta Ellis, Al Harrington, and Brandan Wright would highlight a package for KG and where they could take on an extra contract or two with the trade exception they got from Charlotte.
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flipmeister
Joined: 15 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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| KyleCleric wrote: |
| flipmeister wrote: |
| KyleCleric wrote: |
| flipmeister wrote: |
| If The KG Deal Never Happened,The Lakers where the number one team to bring him in and would probably own the NBA. |
Unlikely. The Lakers did not and do not have the players that the Wolves would have wanted. |
perhaps you're right but, at draft night there was a deal that probably would bring KG to LA.The Lakers,Bobcats and Nets where working on a deal that would send Gerald Wallace+their 8th pick (wich turned out to be Brandan Wright) to LA,Odom to NJ and Jefferson to Charlotte.That would bring in the extra x factor like an Allen type of player that would strong up the lineup.The Lakers would package Bynum+Farmar+Brown+Criitenton+8th pick+ '09 and '10 first round pick for KG.
It would give the Lakers a pretty strong lineup
Mihm/Turiaf
Garnett
Wallace
Bryant
Fisher
But when the Warriors got greedy and wanted more for Richardson, Jordan nixed the three-way deal and KG was gone.The rest is history... |
I didn't hear about that one, but, IMO, it doesn't make sense for any team involved except LA. NJ doesn't downgrade from Jefferson to Odom. Charlotte doesn't downgrade from Wallace and the 8th pick for Jefferson.
As for the deal between LA and the Wolves, it isn't close to matching in salary and doesn't offer the same quality of player they eventually got.
The one deal that I saw for Garnett that seemed to have any potential to it was the Warriors deal and negotiation where Monta Ellis, Al Harrington, and Brandan Wright would highlight a package for KG and where they could take on an extra contract or two with the trade exception they got from Charlotte. |
Whell I those where the players involved that I knew,there where others involved too.
The NJ/LA/Charlotte deal does make sense if you think it through.Lamar Odom would be a triple-double machine in the East.For the Nets to have somebody else besides Kidd that can pass the ball is huge,especially if that passing man is a low-post player.Gerald Wallace is someone who can put up points on the board on a regular base.The bobcats can't complain. |
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arkanekidd
No Longer A Virgin!
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| Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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the njn - la - bobcat deal would have never happened coz nets need the scoring rj brings to the table
and we all know why kevin mc hale took the boston offer - the laker offer was easily better plz dont even compare bynum to al jefferson - like comparing shaq to brand
and wtf lol not even a topic of discussion whenever ur offered KG or Duncan u say yes, period. u cant even compare KG to Al jefferson - if u have to go by the stats, might as well have traded al jefferson for zach randolph
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MikeDead
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 2:30 am Post subject: |
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| arkanekidd wrote: |
the njn - la - bobcat deal would have never happened coz nets need the scoring rj brings to the table
and we all know why kevin mc hale took the boston offer - the laker offer was easily better plz dont even compare bynum to al jefferson - like comparing shaq to brand
and wtf lol not even a topic of discussion whenever ur offered KG or Duncan u say yes, period. u cant even compare KG to Al jefferson - if u have to go by the stats, might as well have traded al jefferson for zach randolph |
Well at that point Al Jefferson was far more polished and developed then Andrew Bynum was. Jefferson had just wrapped up a 20/11 season while Bynum was still struggling to get playing time, and was still somewhat inconsistent with the playing time he was getting. Plus LA didn't have anything close to give Minnesotta the cap relief that Theo Ratliff's expiring contract did.
Looking back on it now though, of course the LA deal would have been a better move for Minnesotta, but I don't know exactly how great of a deal it would have been for the Lakers. Bynum has been a beast at the 5.
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arkanekidd
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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| MikeDead wrote: |
| arkanekidd wrote: |
the njn - la - bobcat deal would have never happened coz nets need the scoring rj brings to the table
and we all know why kevin mc hale took the boston offer - the laker offer was easily better plz dont even compare bynum to al jefferson - like comparing shaq to brand
and wtf lol not even a topic of discussion whenever ur offered KG or Duncan u say yes, period. u cant even compare KG to Al jefferson - if u have to go by the stats, might as well have traded al jefferson for zach randolph |
Well at that point Al Jefferson was far more polished and developed then Andrew Bynum was. Jefferson had just wrapped up a 20/11 season while Bynum was still struggling to get playing time, and was still somewhat inconsistent with the playing time he was getting. Plus LA didn't have anything close to give Minnesotta the cap relief that Theo Ratliff's expiring contract did.
Looking back on it now though, of course the LA deal would have been a better move for Minnesotta, but I don't know exactly how great of a deal it would have been for the Lakers. Bynum has been a beast at the 5. |
yes, i would definetely say it was a safe move
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