NBA's top 20 Players

KyleCleric · Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:04 am Post subject:

[quote="arkanekidd"]

arkanekidd · No Longer A Virgin! Joined: 16 Sep 2007 Posts: 4033

[quote="KyleCleric"]

apples · Joined: 23 Jul 2007 Posts: 2359

No love for Caron or a 20/10 guy in Jamison. Jamison is like one of 4 players that averages 20/10
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KyleCleric · Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 9:01 am Post subject:

[quote="arkanekidd"]

KyleCleric · Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 9:05 am Post subject:

if your only criteria is stats, Lebron led Kobe in scoring, rebounds, assists, blocks, and tied him in steals. Lebron had a better field goal percentage while Kobe had a slightly better 3pt% and slightly better turnover numbers, and a better free throw percentage.
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arkanekidd · No Longer A Virgin! Joined: 16 Sep 2007 Posts: 4033

http://www.82games.com/COM1S11.HTM

Bryant>Lebron offensively and defensively.
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KyleCleric · Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:14 am Post subject:

arkanekidd · No Longer A Virgin! Joined: 16 Sep 2007 Posts: 4033

KG’s scoring and rebounding numbers are at 18/9 this year and he has missed eleven games in only one season. Even with those eleven missed games, his team still etched out 60+ in the win column. In fact, this isn’t a surprise at all. Ray Allen and Paul Pierce have BOTH led their teams to the Eastern Conference Finals in the past and BOTH have been franchise players for YEARS. Both have taken their teams to the playoffs without KG, or anyone like him, and both are recognized as All-Star talents. Kobe did not have a single teammate in the All-Star game this year.

Shaq and Kobe were penalized in the MVP voting for playing together. They won one MVP among them despite being unarguably the best two players in the game at the time. Why? Because, in order to be MVP, you simply cannot have a dominant supporting cast. If you do, you don’t win. It’s that simple. Shaq had the greatest second option in the history of basketball, the team facilitator who led the Lakers in assists for EVERY season of the three-peat, and who was constantly elected to All-NBA defensive teams. When you combine the facts that KG had Allen and Pierce, he missed 11 games, and his numbers would be the worst ever for an MVP candidate, you have no other choice but to realize that KG simply cannot finish first in the MVP voting based on the way the past MVPs have been chosen.

Now, this leaves us with Kobe’s only real MVP competition, Chris Paul.
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arkanekidd · No Longer A Virgin! Joined: 16 Sep 2007 Posts: 4033

arkanekidd · No Longer A Virgin! Joined: 16 Sep 2007 Posts: 4033

[quote="KyleCleric"]

KyleCleric · Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:35 am Post subject:

arkanekidd · No Longer A Virgin! Joined: 16 Sep 2007 Posts: 4033

lamar odom and Z are on the same level. who did kobe have besides him? cavs have west, gibson. kobe had smush, cook, kwame, walton...
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arkanekidd · No Longer A Virgin! Joined: 16 Sep 2007 Posts: 4033

KG gave them a team identity...that's crap. ok he's a great chemisty guy and a great defender, that doesn't make you MVP. leader? i am sorry paul pierce is the team's true leader, KG made them better as a team defensively, and got them to think defense.
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goldnblue83 · Joined: 30 Sep 2007 Posts: 2268 Location: Wisconsin

KG is a fucking nut that talks to himself and screams sporadically, he has me convinced he's a Schizo.

You never see Tim Duncan or Kobe doing that do you man1

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KyleCleric · Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:40 am Post subject:

arkanekidd · No Longer A Virgin! Joined: 16 Sep 2007 Posts: 4033

arkanekidd · No Longer A Virgin! Joined: 16 Sep 2007 Posts: 4033

First of all, LeBron can be immediately systematically eliminated. His team won 45 games. Because of that, he is automatically out of the running.
Quote:

2006/07 Dirk Nowitzki 67 wins
2005/06 Steve Nash 54 wins
2004/05 Steve Nash 62 wins
2003/04 Kevin Garnett 58 wins
2002/03 Tim Duncan 60 wins
2001/02 Tim Duncan 58 wins
2000/01 Allen Iverson phi 56 wins
1999/00 Shaquille O'Neal 67 wins
1998/99 Karl Malone 61 wins
1997/98 Michael Jordan 62 wins
1996/97 Karl Malone 64 wins
1995/96 Michael Jordan 72 wins
1994/95 David Robinson 62 wins
1993/94 Hakeem Olajuwon 58 wins
1992/93 Charles Barkley 62 wins
1991/92 Michael Jordan 67 wins
1990/91 Michael Jordan 61 wins
1989/90 Magic Johnson 63 wins
1988/89 Magic Johnson 57 wins
1987/88 Michael Jordan 50 wins
1986/87 Magic Johnson 65 wins
1985/86 Larry Bird 67 wins
1984/85 Larry Bird 63 wins

As you can see, no player on this list of MVP award winners, other than Michael Jordan, ever won an MVP with less than 54 wins. MJ won the MVP in ’87-’88 because he was the best offensive player while simultaneously being the DPOY (Defensive Player of the Year). James’ defense is NOWHERE close to that level. He has yet to even be elected to a single All-Defensive team. More importantly, there simply isn’t a player in the history of this award who has won less than 50 games. James won 45. He can’t win the award based on that fact alone. Now i will move on to someone Kobe was actually competing with, Chris Paul.
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arkanekidd · No Longer A Virgin! Joined: 16 Sep 2007 Posts: 4033

When the score is within 5 in the last 5 minutes of a game:
http://www.82games.com/CSORT11.HTM
(All Stats in Per 48 minutes form)
Kobe: 52ppg, 8rpg, 6apg on 45% shooting
CP3: 39ppg, 6rpg, 10.5apg on 48% shooting

When the score is within 3 in the last 3 minutes of a game:
http://www.82games.com/SCSORT11.HTM
Kobe: 64ppg, 12rpg, 5apg on 47% shooting
Paul: 54ppg, 8.5rpg, 11apg on 42% shooting

Kobe’s edge in this category is quite evident. In the triangle offense, no player has ever average more than 7-8apg because of “hockey assists”. That is, passes that lead to assists(that includes ALL of Phil’s teams). Watching the Lakers for all 82 games, I can assure you Kobe accumulated a great deal of these “hockey assists” and while I’m sure Paul does as well, it probably isn’t as many as Kobe because the triangle, by design, is a two pass-away offense. For those of you who are not basketball inclined, that means you need to make two passes to hit the open shooter or cutter at the correct angle. We can also see that while both players get progressively better down the stretch, Kobe clearly makes the greater jump from the 5 minute mark to the 3 minute mark. Kobe is a man possessed in the clutch. Paul’s huge dip in FG% indicates he is trying his best to take over, but simply isn’t at the level where he can maintain his efficiency, or even improve it like Kobe, and still exert his will offensively. In any case, no one doubts Kobe down the stretch. The same cannot be said of Paul.

Further, and perhaps more importantly, Chris Paul is a downright bad defender on the ball. Off the ball, he’s excellent and will get you an amazing amount of steals as many little guys seem to do. That said, his team gives up SIX less points per 100 possessions (a little more than the average amount in an NBA ball game) when Paul sits down. This off-sets two thirds of his offensive impact as the team puts up 15.4 less points per 100 possessions when he’s sitting (info here: http://www.82games.com/0708/07NOH1D.HTM). That is an incredible difference. In fact, we saw this problem manifest itself just last night when Jason Kidd hit him for a triple double and Jason Terry chipped in with 30 points of his own. Consider the following statistics: among the seven other Western playoff teams, in terms of FG% allowed, the Hornets gave up the 2nd worst FG% to Nash, the 3rd worst to Tony Parker, and the The bottom line here is this: Kobe is recognized as the best 2 guard defender in the NBA; on the other hand, Chris Paul just may be apart of the lower echelons of man defense at the PG position.
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