What would it take?

West has also choked in that situation about 10000 times already...he's fried as far as crunch-time goes. Telfair is a much more willing shooter in that situation, and even if he didn't take the shot, he would have found someone to take it... Same with Rondo, who has looked a lot more comfortable taking shots lately.

West just cannot handle pressure.

But really, you can't have Scalabrine out there in that situation when you've got quality guys like Gomes on the bench.

About Bibby...I have to agree that having him out on the floor in crunch time would be a major plus. The guy has proven to be a big game performer and show up most when it matters most. It wasn't his fault the Kings lost all those series to the Lakers.

I'd rather see them give Rondo and Telfair a shot at that kind of pressure situation than go off and bring in a $12mil contract though...

nepg wrote:I'd rather see them give Rondo and Telfair a shot at that kind of pressure situation than go off and bring in a $12mil contract though...

Yeah, it would be nice to see them give some guys a chance before going out and making a big move like that, but who knows.

If the C's are gonna make a move for a crafty veteran I hope its not Bibby. We have Rondo and Bassy and that seems like enoughl. If anything Id like to see them bring in a bigman like KG or Gasol.

MikeDead wrote:If the C's are gonna make a move for a crafty veteran I hope its not Bibby. We have Rondo and Bassy and that seems like enoughl. If anything Id like to see them bring in a bigman like KG or Gasol.

I agree Rondo WILL BE enough one day.As far as Telfair ...i don't have much hope.He seems to have ZERO clue what defense is an makes Bibby look like Rodman on the defensive end.Offensively Telfair hasnt learned in what ? 2.5 years when to shoot an when to pass?Thats troubling.KG an Gasol would be nice but where does the game begin? In the hands of the point guard.....If we don't have the right people to get either of those people the ball what good are they??Simple things like the pick an roll something our guards still can't do....An entry passes.....Let's not make the mistake of assuming Rondo or anyone is ready like we did with Delonte an give them the full time gig before they are ready.A solid point would make others so much better an give Rondo the time to learn comfortably instead of under the microscope....imho

nepg wrote:I'd rather see them give Rondo and Telfair a shot at that kind of pressure situation than go off and bring in a $12mil contract though...

Actually if you move the players i spoke of previously its a wash until his final season an if Rondo is ready by then you have a tradeable player/expiring contract....It's awin win situation if you ask me.

QuenteK25 wrote:

nepg wrote:I'd rather see them give Rondo and Telfair a shot at that kind of pressure situation than go off and bring in a $12mil contract though...

Yeah, it would be nice to see them give some guys a chance before going out and making a big move like that, but who knows.

I don't think there ever will be a "time" for Telfair.I agree Rondo will have his day but whats the rush?Couldn't he get enough minutes backing up Bibby an getting minutes beside Bibby??Why do we have to throw him directly into the fire? We have a TON of players to continue to develope so we shorten that list an move Telfair/Gomes/West an let players develope in time instead of this NOW NOW attitude.Al an Perk are 3 -4 years in respectively their times are near now bring in a stabilizer a pg who can run both an uptempo half court offense an you only improve the growth of your post players an Rondo imho.

I agree that Rondo would benefit from learning from Bibby and not needing to step in under all the pressure right away. I mean, I haven't seen anything so far this season that makes me think he's one of those guys who can make the leap to the NBA without much of a struggle, like Chris Paul did.

He would definitely benefit from some tutoring by a veteran. The more I think about this trade the more I like it, just depends on who we would have to give up...

masterofthe1/2inch wrote:

nepg wrote:They don't need Bibby, they just need to not have West in there instead of Rondo or Telfair.

You do realize at this point in both Rondo's an Telfair's career neither of those two players can shoot with any consitancy?That loading your offense at the end of ball game with players who have shown no ability to make a shot makes it pretty hard for people who actually can make a shot?Delonte needed to take that shot,a big game player like Bibby never hesistates that sir is the difference between a pro an a young player learning the NBA game.

You don't need the guy to be a shooter at that point in the game. You need him to be a scorer. With Rondo having the ball, he can make his own offense, he can finish, and find the open man for a shot. Delonte can't create offense, but he can shoot off someone elses move to the basket. TAllen can score, but he's out. Telfair right now can't do much, just like Green, but those two could eventually. Remember, most of us were wrong when we were down on Jefferson and Allen (and Scal).

KyleCleric wrote:

masterofthe1/2inch wrote:

nepg wrote:They don't need Bibby, they just need to not have West in there instead of Rondo or Telfair.

You do realize at this point in both Rondo's an Telfair's career neither of those two players can shoot with any consitancy?That loading your offense at the end of ball game with players who have shown no ability to make a shot makes it pretty hard for people who actually can make a shot?Delonte needed to take that shot,a big game player like Bibby never hesistates that sir is the difference between a pro an a young player learning the NBA game.

You don't need the guy to be a shooter at that point in the game. You need him to be a scorer. With Rondo having the ball, he can make his own offense, he can finish, and find the open man for a shot. Delonte can't create offense, but he can shoot off someone elses move to the basket. TAllen can score, but he's out. Telfair right now can't do much, just like Green, but those two could eventually. Remember, most of us were wrong when we were down on Jefferson and Allen (and Scal).

The shot to which i am reffering in this case is a return pass froma double teamed Pierce to Delonte inside the the foul line a wide open 8 footer.Taking the ball to the basket there would'nt have worked for anyone Blount had the middle sealed an KG was in the passing lane to the wing man,the shot was there an needed to be taken on the return pass.The shot i am reffering to is a shot neither Rondo or Telfair can make at this time.The shot that i am reffering to is automatic for a player like Bibby an he doesnt hesistate he doesnt deffer to a guy standing out on the three point line,the shot was the PGs to take no matter who the PG is.This is where we lack greatly on this team an its descision making.Hence my question.

Chauncy Billups or Mike Bibby, which player would have the biggest impact on this team? better then Pau Gasol? when does the trade deadline expire? does the GM make the move to get a veteran player to play along Pierce? the Owner of the Celtic's better start putting some pressure on his GM real soon! X-players do not always make good
basketball managers of a franchise. A owner, has the responsiblity to
provide his fan with a quality team, especially when the fans are paying for it. We can make all the excuses in the world, injuries,youth, experience etc for losing 18 games and counting. But any person, who runs a sports franchise or has a G. Manager that make decisions that are questionable, is accountable to the fans & ownership. The Celtic's right
now need help now and in the near future, and I hope that this takes place soon for all us fans!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well the way the season has been going I don't think it would be very smart to make a trade for a guy like Pau Gasol, Mike Bibby, KG or Jermaine O'neal (all rumored to be available), because with one of those guys to play alongside Pierce this year it would kill our chances at getting a top 3 pick. I hate to put my faith in the draft but at this point we dont have much else to hope for. Id keep playing the young guys this year and have them develop, use our lottery pick to hopefully get a guy like Kevin Durant ot Greg Oden and then make a move to bring in a veteran to play alongside Pierce and Wally.

And as far as Chauncy Billups or Mike Bibby...Id have to go with Billups, although he'd never come back to Boston because of the bad rap he got from the organization when he was here. They're both good players but Chauncy seems like more of a leader and natural PG then Mike Bibby.

I cant blame Wyc and the ownership of the Celtics because they've shown that they'll shell out the money and pay the luxury tax for the talent, only problem is theyre hasnt been much talent available. And I heard Jackie MacMullen say an interesting thing on NE Sports Tonight, she said that free agents have no interest to come to Boston anymore. So that leaves Danny in a bad position. He drafts well, we've seen that, but his ability to initiate trades and make trades leaves my head spinning. Trading Ricky Davis and Mark Blount essentially for Wally has been a complete bust, and bringing in Sebastian Telfair and Theo Ratliff for Raef Lafrentz has yet to have any benefit on the team at all.

Danny and Wyc did their best to get the fans to buy into Dannys 4 year plan, and it hasnt worked out, but at least we can see some positives out of it. And with the young guys getting way more minutes then they anticipated will end up being good in the long run and for their development.

MikeDead wrote:Well the way the season has been going I don't think it would be very smart to make a trade for a guy like Pau Gasol, Mike Bibby, KG or Jermaine O'neal (all rumored to be available), because with one of those guys to play alongside Pierce this year it would kill our chances at getting a top 3 pick. I hate to put my faith in the draft but at this point we dont have much else to hope for. Id keep playing the young guys this year and have them develop, use our lottery pick to hopefully get a guy like Kevin Durant ot Greg Oden and then make a move to bring in a veteran to play alongside Pierce and Wally.

And as far as Chauncy Billups or Mike Bibby...Id have to go with Billups, although he'd never come back to Boston because of the bad rap he got from the organization when he was here. They're both good players but Chauncy seems like more of a leader and natural PG then Mike Bibby.

I cant blame Wyc and the ownership of the Celtics because they've shown that they'll shell out the money and pay the luxury tax for the talent, only problem is theyre hasnt been much talent available. And I heard Jackie MacMullen say an interesting thing on NE Sports Tonight, she said that free agents have no interest to come to Boston anymore. So that leaves Danny in a bad position. He drafts well, we've seen that, but his ability to initiate trades and make trades leaves my head spinning. Trading Ricky Davis and Mark Blount essentially for Wally has been a complete bust, and bringing in Sebastian Telfair and Theo Ratliff for Raef Lafrentz has yet to have any benefit on the team at all.

Danny and Wyc did their best to get the fans to buy into Dannys 4 year plan, and it hasnt worked out, but at least we can see some positives out of it. And with the young guys getting way more minutes then they anticipated will end up being good in the long run and for their development.

First off i'm of the opinion the only pick that would turn this team around is the #1 an only if Oden actually comes out.An even with that pick its not Shaq/Duncan/Robinson its still going to be years.Both Durant/Oden are very young that doesn't change because they are the top player.Look no further then young Gerald,far more talented then Gomes but hardly as polished an only experience makes that happen gentlemen not wishing on a star.The one time i've seen Oden i see a guy who could grow into that frame an be very good player however what lept out at me was his inability to play with in the defense ,time an time again he was beat by pick an rolls unable to decide how to defend it.
How do you consider Wally a bust when injuries have never even given us a real view of what Wally adds.Rick was playing at half speed an Blount was a head case for us.An if you saw tonights Sports Tonight Paul talked about his isssues with Management an the coaching staff.....Thje Telfair trade was a good gamble the talk of last season was how Raef was untradable with that monster contract,Danny found a buyer an took a gamble on an unproven an brought in a valued expiring contract in Ratliff how is that bad??....We all know it's bibby i would like to see in here an with 32 games left in the season Wally still down/no Tony Allen an Pierce still playing into shape we would still be hard pressed to play .500 ball.You go in as maybe the 5th worst team you still have trading power with that pick if the guy you want isnt there.

Well Gomes played four years of college and Gerald Green came straight out of high school so as far as fundamentals go Gomes is lightyears ahead of Green.

Wally's a bust because of the fact that he has gotten injured, and looking at how the players have panned out since the trade would you rather have Ricky Davis or Wally...Id take Ricky no question, and Wally's contract is far from desirable. I understand the need to move Blount but if your dumping Ricky Davis and a 7 footer with a good offensive game then I would think you could get better then Wally. Wally's entire career he has been nothing but a shooter, and when his shot isnt going down he's virtually useless to any team.

The draft this year is extremely deep, actually its the deepest weve seen in years. If it wasn't for the NBA age rule that requires players to have at least 1 year of college or international play then half the projected first round would already be playing in the NBA. If the C's have the option they already said there taking Oden, and I can't argue with that although Durant is clearly the most gifted athlete in college, but the C's need an impact center more then another wingman so I can see why they'd take Oden. Look at Oden/Durant/Hawes/Noah/Wright, if they all declare for the draft, which I assume they will, they'll all get minutes right away and they'll all contribute right away. Weve yet to see Oden healthy so he's clearly better then what he's shown so far, but even with his shooting hand hurt he should not be getting dominated on the pick and roll (good observation btw cause ive noticed that too). Then look at Durant, 6'10 with those long arms (wingspan of 7'5) thats the type of body KG has, except Durant can shoot the ball much better, leaps better, handles the ball well, and has a quick first step. They'd both be a huge step in the right direction for the C's, but even without a top 2 pick theres 5 or 6 other players I would be fine to see Danny draft.

None of these players are going to make the C's a championship team but if you have the chance to draft a potential franchise player then you have to get a little optimistic at the thought. Plus with Pierce getting older the C's are going to need another guy to take some of the scoring duty, becasue we all saw when Pierce was out that our offense sucks without him.

MikeDead wrote:Well Gomes played four years of college and Gerald Green came straight out of high school so as far as fundamentals go Gomes is lightyears ahead of Green.

Wally's a bust because of the fact that he has gotten injured, and looking at how the players have panned out since the trade would you rather have Ricky Davis or Wally...Id take Ricky no question, and Wally's contract is far from desirable. I understand the need to move Blount but if your dumping Ricky Davis and a 7 footer with a good offensive game then I would think you could get better then Wally. Wally's entire career he has been nothing but a shooter, and when his shot isnt going down he's virtually useless to any team.

The draft this year is extremely deep, actually its the deepest weve seen in years. If it wasn't for the NBA age rule that requires players to have at least 1 year of college or international play then half the projected first round would already be playing in the NBA. If the C's have the option they already said there taking Oden, and I can't argue with that although Durant is clearly the most gifted athlete in college, but the C's need an impact center more then another wingman so I can see why they'd take Oden. Look at Oden/Durant/Hawes/Noah/Wright, if they all declare for the draft, which I assume they will, they'll all get minutes right away and they'll all contribute right away. Weve yet to see Oden healthy so he's clearly better then what he's shown so far, but even with his shooting hand hurt he should not be getting dominated on the pick and roll (good observation btw cause ive noticed that too). Then look at Durant, 6'10 with those long arms (wingspan of 7'5) thats the type of body KG has, except Durant can shoot the ball much better, leaps better, handles the ball well, and has a quick first step. They'd both be a huge step in the right direction for the C's, but even without a top 2 pick theres 5 or 6 other players I would be fine to see Danny draft.

None of these players are going to make the C's a championship team but if you have the chance to draft a potential franchise player then you have to get a little optimistic at the thought. Plus with Pierce getting older the C's are going to need another guy to take some of the scoring duty, becasue we all saw when Pierce was out that our offense sucks without him.

Yes Gomes played for four years that my point exactly! You think bringing in either Oden/Durant who will have all of ONE college season wont require developing your dreaming.Even Gomes with four years under his belt is learning the game at this level do we really need to stay young??You either believe in the players we have now Jefferson/Rondo/Green or you don't.These guys combined with Pierce Wally an a veteran pg will be light years ahead of anyone we get from college.Wally's a bust because of the fact that he has gotten injured....Sorry what GM has a crystal ball to perdict that?? Ainge made a TEAM move because both Ricky an Blount weren't playing for this club period.The Blount an Ricky contracts actually combine to be more then Wally makes so whats your point??Ugh this is giving me a head ache!

^ Haha. My point is Danny Ainge basically gave up 35-40 pts a game in Ricky Davis and Blount, and recieved 20-25pts a game in Wally, and when Wally isnt healthy not even that.

Of course Oden or Durant need developing but no one argue that there very special players. Oden is putting up better center #'s in college then Tim Duncan did, and Oden strongers and bigger. Durant is smashing a ton of college records and is one of the most athletic college players we've seen in years. Im not saying these guys will be all-stars but the potential is definitley there. They both have NBA bodies are are way talented on both ends, and if we have a pick to get one of these guys then we gotta use it.

Im not against bringing in a veterean presence, but I dont see the point really. Even with a veteran PG the Cetics are a far way away from a championship. So why not just let the young guys keep developing. We have a decent core group of players, but with Pierce getting older this draft is the best chance the C's have of getting another potential franchise player to take some of the burden away from Pierce. And as we've seen Danny can draft very well so I dont have too many worries there. The C's have already said time and time again that there plan is to build through the draft and with the situation now I really dont wanna see them blow up this team,change the plan and set us back another 5 years.